Hi guys,

I have been reading this board for a bit, looking around for concise information on the licencing issues for AGK. In the FAQ it defines the two tiers differently, and sets them also with separate licencing. When the pricing and date was announced a few days ago, it was noted that the tier system no longer applied in that sense, and was more of a development path.

My question is fairly simple, and hopefully we can collate all this information into one location, rather than all over the place. Also, it would be wonderful if one of the powers-that-be could add the official story to this.

My basic question is - What happens with distribution of the apps I create?

Can this be clearly answered, or is the information not ready yet?

I'm really looking forward to this tool, and regardless of the licence, I know I will be purchasing it on day 1. I've been using DarkBASIC for 12 years now, and still use it at my job as a prototyping tool.

Regards,
Greenlig

Hi,

You can do what you want with the apps you make. The only problem comes if you are using the BASIC and want to publish them to app stores. You can do this all yourself but you will need store agreements with companies like Apple, Samsung etc. You will also need a Mac if you want to publish onto iOS and MacOS.

After launch we will look at how we can help users publish via TGC. Nothing is decided on this just yet, we want to get the core product out first.

Rick

Fantastic. Thanks for the response. If you are looking for the answers to this question, as I have been, here they are.

Thanks Rick.

Regards,
Greenlig

EDIT - Got to add some stuff here. I've been using DarkBASIC since I was 12. I found it on a CD that came with a magazine. I played with the demo, and was hooked. Particularly, the cave demo got me. I edited the shoes off that thing, and, in essence, created my first mod. Since then, I used DarkBASIC almost every day. I grew up in a very rural area, and this was my only path to game creation. I was a useless coder, but over time, and as a direct result of TGC's commitment to a solid platform, I have become quite competent. I now design and produce arcade games, and am the project lead on multiple developments. Still, I use DBPRO to prototype games. I love this software, and the company that produces it. It seems that every year I go on, the software becomes more relevant and useful. I will be using this companies software till they stop producing it. /endrant

RickV,

Please clarify "The only problem comes if you are using the BASIC and want to publish them to app stores."

What is the problem?
Has TGC experimented with this already?
If so, which stores and what were the results?

My concern is that Tier 1 is useful only for prototyping and that Tier 2 is required for app submission. Please correct me if I am mistaken by providing a concrete example. For example, this is the process you would follow to publish a Tier 1 app to the _____ app store.

Thanks.

So if you use the basic version, you won't be able to publish to the appstore unless you have a mac. How about jaibraking, do you still need a mac?

From what I've read so far,

You CAN publish Tier 1 apps. You will have to direct your users to download and install the AppGameKit Player first.

You WILL need Mac OS X to publish, but the app can be written from the AppGameKit IDE in Windows. I'm not sure on all the details of what you'll have to do with your code in Mac OS. I suspect there's a method you'll use to translate your app into something the Apple app store will accept. It will then be installed to be recognized by the AppGameKit Player.

There are ways of putting Mac OS X on your computer legally, as in NOT a Hackintosh. You can legally install OS X as a virtual machine using something like VirtualBox virtualization software. I've seen posts from several developers elsewhere that are doing it this way and they haven't had any problems from Apple about it.

Tier 2 apps, for Apple at least, will require the same development environment that Apple requires. Mac OS X, and the iOS or Mac SDK. The only difference is you would also be using the AppGameKit libraries in your code.

As the time draws closer to release, and as the players and tools are finalized and approved by the various app stores, more details will come.

if I buy AppGameKit , can I install it on 2 PC?

You CAN publish Tier 1 apps. You will have to direct your users to download and install the AppGameKit Player first.

I want to clear up this point, but we are still working on it ourselves so please take whatever I say as work in progress and if we can find a better/easier way we will of course look at it.

The AppGameKit player will be an app on the app store, but it will only be used for testing your tier 1 creations from the IDE.

When you come to distribute your app (assuming you want to distribute on your own) you load up XCode on a Mac, we provide you a template project that you can simply load and add your compiled bytecode file as if it were a piece of media, then hit compile and submit it to Apple.

This template project will essentially be the AppGameKit Player but built specifically to run your bytecode, and only your bytecode. Therefore it is a standalone app in its own right from the point of view of Apple. We think this has the most chance of making it through Apple's approval process.

Nice.

Thanks for clearing that up Paul. It sounds like a great way to do it.

Dosn't apple have a 1000$ fee for submitting apps to the appstore?

@ Paul Johnston,

Thank you for taking time to discuss how one might publish a tier 1 app for Mac and iOS.

What about PC and Meego and Bada?

Dosn't apple have a 1000$ fee for submitting apps to the appstore?

They have a $99 per year license fee to submit apps, but you can submit as many as you like in that time.

What about PC and Meego and Bada?

Those are a similar process, but don't require the use of a Mac to do it.

After doing some more in-depth reading of the Apple iOS developer license agreement, I must retract my previous statement.

Section 2.2 of the iOS Developers License Agreement states that you can only use their SDK on an Apple branded computer.

So while running Mac OS X in a virtual machine on a PC isn't illegal, it does technically violate the terms and conditions of the developer agreement.

Also, as of this posting the current SDK requires Snow Leopard 10.6.6.

Section 2.2 of the iOS Developers License Agreement states that you can only use their SDK on an Apple branded computer.

Well, that is great and all, but how are they going to find out that you used a virtual machine?

If you use VirtualBox (www.virtualbox.org) or VMWare to run MacOS X 10.6, how are they going to find out that you really didn't use a real mac or not? I mean Apple pushes "Bootcamp" for tons of things.

Not sure how or if they would find out. I've seen posts from current Apple iOS and Mac developers who are using OS X in a VM, so it's certainly possible.

I was just pointing out the error in my previous assumptions, and pointing out that if you do use it in a VM on a non Apple branded computer there is some risk involved.

A suggestion to anyone looking for a Mac to develop on, at least for students anyway. My computer science labs didn't have any around, but the art department sure did. If I can't find a friend's to borrow I'll be heading there to submit.

Keep in mind things like code signing certificates have to be applied for and used from the same computer. Borrowing one may not always be the best option.

Very true, I'll remember that, but I'm def not buying a $1k Macbook for this single purpose. Though maybe if I get some actual revenue I could write one off

I'm def not buying a $1k Macbook for this single purpose.

Agreed
It seems that if Apple would let us make enough money from our Apps to buy a Mac, then they might have more sales than rejecting us and keeping us down.
Their whole "you have to buy our hardware before you can sell your software to our customers" is a real turn off for me.
I mean, if they force us to develop for everything except them from the start, then why would we want to support their products after we overcome that challenge??
Then, there is their approval process...so, I'm expected to go to the expense of the new computer, but only to later have my app rejected anyway???

I may just develop for all of their competitors and not offer my games for their platform even when I can afford the Mac for a single purpose.

After launch we will look at how we can help users publish via TGC. Nothing is decided on this just yet, we want to get the core product out first.

I really hope this happens soon after the initial release, because I would much rather publish through TGC than through Apple.
Also, helping us get our games out there will give more exposure to the AppGameKit thus increasing its sales.
That would be a double whammy for TGC revenues. (percentage of App sales and increasing AppGameKit revenue)
Maybe a splash screen saying "Created with AGK" or something similar would be a nice touch for apps published through TGC