No.

If there is a free, viable, information-packed resource that teaches all of the concepts covered in the books, available online, then there is indeed no point in wanting a cheaper service for the version you have to pay for.

Analogy...

Its like going to a public swimming pool that you need to pay for to get in to, when your friend has a big swimming pool in his back yard you can use for free. You complain that its too expensive to use the swimming pool, and in turn should be allowed to use it whenever you please. Your friends pool might not be as big, or have the extra diving board, but with a little effort it can be just as entertaining, and in the end does the same thing, cools you off.

The Code Base, Tutorial City, these forums, the DBC Classic tutorials page, the DBPro tutorials page, the DBC/P IRC channel packed with helpful people every day, TDK's tutorials, the tutorials that come with dbp, the help files that come with dbp, and jess t's amped up help file page.

All of those resources completely outweigh what any book could teach you.

Awesome place for a page break.

I was not trying to insult you, only trying to prevent one of us from putting our foot in our mouth. I apparently failed.

I was only trying to ask you to check out that "free download", because it is not the complete text of either book, nor was that ever stated by TGC. They said it was sample chapters, and that is what it is. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but this is a pivotal point. It would be grossly unfair to do that in my opinion. If that is the case, point my download to SoulMan's, or Tiresius' page, it would compensate them and make me feel better about it, too.

Misinformation like that is one thing SoulMan is complaining about, this is a prime example of how that makes things worse. Tiresius is upset too now. I bought direct from TGC, I got DarkMatter and also those games, which is pretty awesome. I also got the Expansion Pack, and a few other things that perhaps people buying elsewhere did not. Good for me, but...it is only TGC's stuff that I got, not those books. (I'm not complaining, TGC...thanks!) See, that is TGC rewarding me for buying direct, I get all warm and fuzzy all over because we have both decided to be nice to one another. We have this relationship established because we both took the time to deal with the other directly. That is the best $90 I ever spent by far. I would advise others likewise to be careful about steeply discounted stuff in any area, deal with someone close enough to the product to be able to help you out. I feel that I am money ahead by buying directly from TGC, and they get to keep the lion's share of my money as opposed to some Guy named Guy getting it.

I have not been here long, but I have been here long enough to see about half a dozen young people run away from here from all of the haranguing. My haranguing is usually designed to pump someone up; I can't get too excited by flamefests, that is not community spirit at all; its selfish. It is the only blemish I can see on this site. You say they should toughen up; I say young minds are very fragile, and this is a worthwhile pursuit. Focus on helping, and be more aware of how your words affect someone's ego.

Its not cheaper, the issue is the huge postage to the US for a 700+ page book. He said $60 was fair, I agree. $40 for postage is the problem. I think it is fear that keeps the books from being e-published. I understand it, but its silly, nonetheless.

It might be a good idea to go and read those books you got for free.
@tiresius = No, both are myths!

Just checking, are you saying we were lying about having the books available for download from our order page? I assure you they are, Im looking at them both right now.

If you werent saying that then ignore this.

So you are saying that both, 700 Page books are availible to those that purchase Dark Basic Pro from TGC?
That's real nice of them to do that and screw the rest of us over.
SoulMan

SoulMan, easy...he's mistaken, not lying. RUCCUS, go to the last page in either book, and tell me that it isn't something like 119, or 149. Seriously, look at it! It is not the full book!!!!!!

I downloaded them too, long ago...the difference is, I looked at them. The entire table of content is there, and also some of the first chapters, but not the entire book.







btw, IanM tried to tell you to go to Digital Skills, they offer the same download there, but...its only a teaser to get you to purchase the product. That's fine, but...the problem you are on about is still unresolved. That is why I contacted Sams. This is just the sort of thing they like to fix. One way, or another, we will get this issue resolved, rest assured.

Oh I see, yes it is in fact a trial.

yes, sorry about the confusion. Anna K was similarly disappointed, sorry about that, too! Oh well.

I find that un-acceptable. This is crap like this that makes me want to completely drop any products that I have from this group and go elsewhere

Ok, then name the ways I can learn Dark Basic without the books.
A thin reference manual and poorly written tutorials?

If this is the way the community really wants to react, I really don't want to be part of it or have anything to do with TGC or the products that they sell.

Just so you know, this community is without doubt the best place to get help with learning the language. Together we are 100 times better than any book can ever be. That's if you're nice.

Ric summed it up perfectly. It's not about the question or your specific issue. It's the hostility with which you attack people trying to help. If you actually took some of the advice, such as reading TDK's tutorials, you wouldn't have time to read any of the books. There is so much decent material out there if you're prepared to use it.

Even your thread title and first three words suggest you wanted a rant, not a solution.

plus taxes

If you're in the US and you're buying anything from any company in Europe and they try to stick the VAT or any other taxes on you, then they're ripping you off. Taxes on purchases are on the person making the purchase. The US does not tax you for anything you buy from overseas OR from another state. for example, if you're in physically Virginia and you buy something from through the mail in Ohio, there are zero sales taxes. This applies for being anywhere in the US and buying from another country.

Also, I don't seem to recall TGC trying to foist any bogus taxes on me when I bought Dark Basic Pro. So I find it hard to believe and I'm thinking you're maybe misinterpreting what's being said about taxes. The VAT only applies to European customers and the British taxes only apply to British customers.

Absolutely right BatVink.

You want the truth? Haven't I made it clear enough? Quit beating guys up for not marching to your beat. Quit playing the intellectual snob like you are better than persons with less experience. Basically, help out or stay out. That's my message.

What are you talking about? Thats just an attempt to fire an argument. All we have done is supply help by offering alternative methods of learning other than this precious book which you seem to think will solve all your programming problems. Its got nothing to do with 'snobbery' - just people with more experience offering good solid advice which is being ignored.

He never once moaned. He never once asked to be given anything, and he never said he wanted it his way, only he wanted to be able to afford it. Everything else, we all did.

Pretty much every post in this thread from Soulman (including the very first one) is a moan about the cost of the book or about people not agreeing with him and threatening to leave. Definately sounds like moaning to me.
To paraphrase what BatVink and IamM have said, spend your time more constructively learning from what is available rather than moaning about what isn't available.